Episode 3.13 - Amanda Collins

Amanda Collins joins us for Episode 13! Amanda is a performer, educator, and activist for diversity and inclusion in the arts. She talks with us about starting up the DEI collective at Mizzou, her journey of taking some time away from music, and building relationships and networks in the music industry.

Transcripts are available for every episode thanks to our amazing volunteers!

To learn more about Amanda, visit the following links:

Amanda’s website: https://www.acollinshorn.com/ 

Mizzou Horn Crew: https://www.acollinshorn.com/mizzou-horn-crew.html

Full Transcript

Carrie Blosser 0:00

Welcome to the third season of Diversify the Stand. Together, we speak with a wide range of musicians who talk about topics that are important to them. I'm Carrie Blosser.

Ashley Killam 0:08

And I'm Ashley Killam. We're so excited to dive into talks with a whole bunch of guests this season. If you like following along and are a fan of our podcast, please leave us a five star rating and review. Well, thank you so much for joining us. We're so excited to talk with you today.

Amanda Collins 0:24

Thank you, I'm excited to be here.

Ashley Killam 0:27

We'd love to start off just by hearing a little bit about how you got started in music into what you currently do.

Amanda Collins 0:32

Okay, I'll make this a short version. So, I was born into a musical family. My dad is a musician, and he taught in public schools as a band director for about 40 years. And when I came along, he was teaching high school band. And so, I was just raised at band camp, you know, attending concerts and rehearsals and marching band shows and you name it I was there. Just sort of became indoctrinated to it. I started taking group piano lessons when I was like two or three through my preschool, you know. Nothing fancy, like when you color the fingers on little page, like that's what where we started. But it just sort of evolved from there. I had an interest in music from a very early age just being around a lot. But then also, you know, growing up in a household where music was on all the time. Also, fun fact: I'm pregnant right now, and I've been told lots of stories about when my mom was pregnant with me, and apparently, she used to put headphones on her belly when she was pregnant with me to listen to, you know, classical music and everything. So, I think it's kind of funny that I turned out to be a classically trained French horn player. Anyway, speed forward to about fifth grade. I've been taking piano lessons for a while. My dad decided that it was time for me to pick a band instrument. So, I said flute, and he was like, "Well, what else would you be interested in?" And I said, "I don't know, clarinet." He said, "Well, what else would you be interested in?" I said, "I don't know." He said, "Do you know what a French horn is?" And I said, "A French what?" And he said, "Well, you'll just try it at the instrument petting zoo at school the next day." So I go to school, and little did I know that the band director and my dad were in cahoots. They were all sadly all out of flutes and clarinets that day! Very sad. They just didn't have enough apparently. But, they did have this stinky old French horn, so I went home, and my dad gave me my first lesson, and I was able to play "Mary Had a Little Lamb." And he's like, "Sold, it's yours." And I said, "Okay." So, I started taking lessons a little bit later at Peabody at the preparatory, and the more I advanced than the horn, the more became evident, "Hey, I like this, I think I might want to do this for a living." So, it came time to audition for schools, and I thought, "Okay, I'll be a band director, because that's what my dad did." So I went to Penn State and enrolled in the music education program. The day that music education courses started, I was like, "You know what, I don't want to do this. I don't like this." They had us sit on the ground and do this little sing-songs in a circle with cups. And I just thought, "This is not what I'm into." But I really liked playing my horn, and I liked teaching people how to play the horn. I had a small horn studio by the time was about 20 or so of like, local, you know, elementary, middle school kids, and I decided to switch. Ever since then, I've just sort of been going down this crazy path of trying lots of different things until I finally ended up here at the University of Missouri, and I feel like I'm in my dream jobs. And that's sort of the gist of how I got started.

Carrie Blosser 3:09

That's awesome. I love the headphones. That's amazing. Are you headphoning currently? And do you have a mix of musical styles?

Amanda Collins 3:16

Yes, they say "Actually, you shouldn't do that." Because it's like, it's really loud. It can be potentially really loud. And the baby, you know, it's right there and they can't get away from it. I have this weird thing where I'm like, "I want my baby to be a jazz musician because I've always wanted to be a jazz musician." And my husband and I laugh because he likes heavy metal and weird stuff, like - I shouldn't say it's weird - different things like that than I'm used to. And he's like, "What if she ends up being like a rocker?" And I was like, "That's not gonna happen. She's gonna play jazz." Because that's all I play for her and brass quintet when she has to come to those rehearsals and be there, so... She did play Mahler 1 when she was in the first trimester. We played Mahler 1 with the Kansas City Symphony, so that was fun. I think she's gonna be jazzer. That's my gut feeling.

Carrie Blosser 3:57

We wanted to ask you and have you talk a little bit about...so you were doing lots of French horn performing and playing, and then there was a time that you kind of took off of French horn itself, and we'd love for you to talk a little bit about decisions and why you kind of stepped away from horn for a bit and then when you came back, like how that evolution happened.

Amanda Collins 4:16

So, when I made the decision to switch to performance, it was not made out of like, necessarily like a strong, clear...you know how when you want something you can visualize in your mind really easily usually? I couldn't necessarily visualize myself seeing an orchestra every day for the rest of my career, but I knew that I didn't want to be like in a traditional classroom setting, you know, what I was essentially being trained to do as a music ed major. So, I went through all the motions of being a performance major and finished undergrad and then immediately went on to my master's degree, and I studied with Greg Hustis at Southern Methodist University. He was...at the time, he was principal horn of the Dallas Symphony. When I was there, I really got a sense of what it's like to be a symphony musician. I even played with the Dallas Symphony a few times, and there are a lot of regional orchestras in Dallas, you know, so I played a lot. And I began to realize that part of the reason why I loved playing my instrument was the people, and when you get in a section with people that just aren't of like mind, or they're just not the same energy...like I came across a lot of people who just seemed really unhappy, and just, there's a lot of negative energy. It brought me down, and I didn't like that, and so, I sort of went through this, like, crisis between my first and second year of my master's degree, I was like, "I don't want to do this, like, I don't know. It doesn't feel right, it feels like this world isn't right for me." And, you know, I ran into a couple of weird scenarios. I won't get into too much detail, but being a person of color, and being a woman and being plus size, you know, that's not the typical mold of, at the time, of a professional symphony horn player, and I came into a couple of scenarios where I definitely did not feel welcome in certain situations and was given some advice, like, you know, "Well, if you lose weight, you know, you might be taken more seriously," and horrible things that nobody ever wants to hear in their career. But it really...I'm actually grateful for those types of conversations because it definitely steered me in a direction that I'm in now. As I mentioned earlier in this podcast, I am very, very happy with the way things turned out. I feel like I couldn't have asked for a better career path. But, I decided to quit the horn actually after some of those difficult experiences happened. I had been auditioning. I graduated in 2009, and I had been auditioning, and I played with Dallas a couple of times and playing, and I felt like I would get to, you know, the second round or the final round, and I just was never the one, and it was really frustrating, and I'm sure a lot of people listening to this think, "Well, that's just the way it goes." But for me, it just always felt like they loved me until they saw me or, you know, they talk to me or something dumb like that, you know? And I'll never have proof of it, of course, but there was just always these were little things that happened that made me feel like "Why am I doing this? If it doesn't matter about me playing the best, then why am I doing this?" You know, and it was the first time in my life where I felt like I couldn't be myself or look or act a certain way to have the career that I wanted. It just felt terrible. And it was a big blow to think I've spent all this money and time on instruments and lessons and degrees only to be told I need to change something that's stupid about me to be different in this mold, whether it be like directly in conversation or the results of auditions. I had met my - now husband, then my boyfriend. His name is Michael - In the fall of 2009 shortly after got my degree, and he applied to Master's degree programs in art, and he ended up getting into the Maryland Institute College of Art. We were living in Dallas at the time. We were engaged to be married, and we were like, "Okay, what do we do now?" So, he decided to leave Dallas. I wrote my contacts. I think I had some gigs on the books, and I just said "I'm leaving Dallas. My husband has a degree program he's attending in the fall, and we're relocating to Baltimore." And people were like, "Alright, well see you later." So we moved to Baltimore, and I became the breadwinner because he was in school. So, I took a job working for a company called Music and Arts, which I think most people at this point have heard of. They've expanded pretty far. But it's a music retail store. They sell instruments and lessons and books and everything you could ever need to be a musician. And I started off as like a lowest level employee, you know, making $20,000 a year, like not enough barely to live on by Maryland standards, that's for sure. But Michael went to school, and he got his degree, and I worked, and then I ended up getting promoted a couple of times. And I ended up working my way up to this position called educational representative. I was not playing my horn anymore, and I thought "They gave me a company car. I have this this job that's pretty great. Now it's making a little bit more money. Maybe I can make a career out of this." Because there were a lot of people like me that had the degrees, you know, and this didn't work out for them to be in symphonies or bands, and they were working for this company and it seemed like an okay job at the time. But everything seems okay when you're like 26 years old and have lots of energy and can lift lots of heavy tubas and all sorts of things. Like, if I thought about doing that now, especially being pregnant, there's just no way. One day, I was...it's about two years, I did this. I was sitting in my car, you know, my horn, I barely played it. And I thought, "I feel not good today. Let me just turn on some music just to get everything going." And I turned on the local classical music station and Rhapsody and Blue was on. It was the opening, like I turned it on right at the clarinet riff. And the sun was coming up, you know, as I was beginning my day, and I just started to cry. Like I was just...I didn't really know what I was feeling as I can still see it like sitting in that seat in that car and just thinking like, "What am I doing with my life?" You know, I let them take the joy away from me. Like the whole reason I played music as a child and all those fun times I played concerts in high school and all the good times I've had playing my instrument, the people I've met, and I let them spoil it. And I said, "I'm not going to do that anymore." So, I made the decision. I think it was probably like May that this happened. I was like, "Well, I'm going to work until Michael gets a job. He's going to graduate and he'll get a job and then I'm going to just quit and figure it out." So around August, I applied to be a substitute teacher in Howard County Public Schools where I'm from. I kept a lot of contacts, which I think is really important to always stay in touch with people because you never know who's going to help you when you need it. And, I started being a long-term sub in Howard County Public Schools, which paid enough money to get by. We ended up moving in with my dad. I just decided...I had this mantra that I would say over and over again, to myself: "The best way to be a horn player is to be a horn player." So I just did everything I could to play. I started playing a lot for free or trying to network and play gigs, and it built up from there, and I sort of reinvented myself. I started teaching the Duke Ellington School for the Arts, and that's when a lot of stuff opened up for me because I made a lot of contacts there of like freelance musicians, and I started playing shows, and that's really the catalyst that just took me away. It was hard for a while. I remember one time, we only had like $200 in our checking.account. And I was like, "We can't buy food like right now, like, this is a lot." Thank God we live with my dad because he's very grateful, and he supported me. He always supported me in my career, and he understood why I was doing what I was doing, and we wouldn't have made it without him, so I'm really grateful for that. It was a hard time, but I'm glad it happened because like I said, you know, when you're living through that stuff, and it's like, you have these horrible moments where you're like, "Oh my God did I make this horrible mistake?" Now, looking back on that time, I'm so glad it happened because like, here we are. It was really worth it to struggle for a little while. It makes you appreciate when things are really going well and really recognize how great they are.

Ashley Killam 11:23

When we talked for the mentorship program for the IWC program, that's what - in my talking with you - that was when I was like, "We have to get her to talk about this." You telling your story to me, like, it meant so much during another side. Because like going through school, for me, it was always like the pipeline of like, "Okay, well, like, here's the path, and then you like, go through it. And everything just, like, happens automatically." And like, having gone through, like, "I really don't know what I want to do with my life. And like, now I'm here. And then there's a pandemic." Like, it's really nice to see stories on people that, like, did take time off. And they are great players and great educators, and that doesn't make you any less than that person, and you can take an overpass to get to light. And that's okay. And I just think it's so important to hear those stories to show that, you know, it doesn't always work out the way that universities teach, like, this dream happen, and you just win your first job, and life is great.

Amanda Collins 12:22

Yeah, and then you're made to feel bad if it doesn't happen. And I can remember distinctly walking through the hallway at SMU, and the trumpet professor posted on the door. John Smith - I don't remember his name, but we'll just say - John Smith Class of 2000...2002, 2001, maybe. Bad job, I'm not even sure of these details. But, I remember it being like a really long time, and all my friends were like, "Oh my god, I would die if it took me that long to win a job." And I was like, "Oh my god." So so we have to win win right after school. And one other thing, Ashley, to point out is that, you know, that generation of teachers, so like all of our teachers...I don't know what your age is, but for me, I'm 36, and so a lot of the people I studied with are the baby boomer generation. I don't like ageism at all, I'm not trying to say everyone thinks this way, but that's how they were taught. They were taught, there are two things that you can do with music: you can teach in a school, or you can play in an orchestra or band, period. There's nothing else that you can do. And that's just sort of how they teach, and a lot of people still teach that way, and I'm really happy to be one of the people that says, "Hey, listen, what do you want? What makes you happy? Let's make you this dream multifaceted career." Which is what I do. And I learned it from my mentor, Larry Williams, who has probably the most successful, multifaceted self-driven career I've ever seen, and he's doing great. So that was, I can't take all the credit, because watching him and sort of copying him and taking his advice is really, I think, what set me apart from that whole, like, either you do the orchestra or you are...you're a waste of horn player, you know?

Ashley Killam 13:50

Exactly. So, thank you for sharing. And I still have Amanda's Words of Wisdom notes I took during our meetings! They're taped to my wall. Because sometimes you just need that, and yeah.

Amanda Collins 14:04

I mean, I put stuff I say on the wall sometimes too. I got post-its on the wall next to my desk in my office when, you know, we all have impostor syndrome from time to time, and if you say you don't, you're lying, because there's times in your life where you're like, "I don't know what I'm doing right now." I just look at those little quotes or from other people that have been inspirational, and it gets you through.

Ashley Killam 14:21

Like you said, you have your dream job now, and you built up this awesome studio and you're doing so many cool things at Mizzou. You started the Inclusion, Diversity and Equity Collective. Would you talk a little bit about that work that you started and the importance of that in the work of or like in the realm of academia?

Amanda Collins 14:40

So, to be specific about it, I was one of the people that helped start it. I think I was the catalyst was like "This is what we need.? But I have to give credit where credit's due: the students. It's actually a student organization recognized by the university right now, and so it's completely student run, which is I think the way it should be because the students are the ones that have the drive and the energy and the resources, quite frankly, to do a lot of the stuff that needs to be done, the heavy lifting, so to speak. But, that all went down in the summer of 2020 after the murder of George Floyd and several others. The response to the Black Lives Matter movement was huge in our country, as I'm sure we all remember, and I remember being on like Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and seeing all these posts from like, professional artistic organizations and other universities and conservatories talking about "We stand with the Black Lives Matter movement", and blah, blah, you know, pledging their allegiance, essentially, to this organization, which was kind of funny because a lot of them probably had no idea, you know, what the mission was of the group or why they're so upset, but at least, you know, they were saying something. And the University of Missouri, I mean, people don't understand. When you are talking about a university - and probably a lot of conservatories, too - most of us applied music teachers are nine month employees, which means that the summertime...we don't meet, we don't come into school, we're just not there. And this all happened in the time when we're not there. But as I mentioned before, I was on like Twitter and stuff, and I can see this hashtag #BlackAtMizzou that pops up. And it's basically a bunch of students of color, especially black students, talking about all of the experiences they've had that were racist or smelled of racism, or just were completely prejudiced at the University of Missouri. It's no secret that the University of Missouri has a sort of tumultuous past with race. They had a really big protest in believe is 2015 before I got to the university about the mistreatment of black students and the issues surrounding administration supporting those students, and it's all public knowledge. It was a national news story at the time. There's this tornado of just, like, emotion and sadness and anger that was happening in summer of 2020. It all just came to this point. And we had an emergency faculty meeting, which never happens again, because we are not employed in the summer. And it was voluntary, but I would say probably about two thirds of our faculty came, and we're on Zoom,it's in the pandemic. And I just remember sitting here looking at this very screen sitting in my house, and watching my colleagues just mourn and get angry and frustrated and confused because they didn't understand what's going on. The students were pretty much saying they felt not connected. No one supported them. Some of those people will attack the School of Music. They wanted to know why we didn't put out a statement about the Black Lives Matter thing. Just sort of chaos. Now there are...at the time, there were only three black professors, like myself included, and I guess I sort of get lumped into black every once in a while although I do identify as a person of color. But I'm happy to go that way too if it's in support of things that need to be supported. But I was only...I think one other person was there, and I mean, what do you say, you know, when you're sitting around a room with your white colleagues who don't understand, and you want to help, but you also want to be careful to not offend people, and also being junior faculty, you have to be careful. So, we got to the point where there's just chaos, and I remember my heart was like beating on my chest because I was really nervous. But sometimes, you just have this feeling where you're like, "I have to do this, even though it's scary. I'm gonna do it." And so I unmuted myself, and I told him what was up, I said, "Listen, the whole reason these students are upset is because they feel like nobody cares about these issues in our school that affects them deeply. And they look to us, in many cases, more so than their own families, to help them understand the ways of the world and why things happen. And it's like, we're a secondary line of parent parenting here. And so for us to remain silent is to pretty much say 'you're on your own kid.' And yes, they're all adults, but there's adults in training, and they need somebody to explain to them, 'It's gonna be okay. We hear you, we're going to make some changes, because you matter to us." And I said, "The whole reason we're all here is because of these kids, so what kind of business are we running if we're not listening to our consumer?" And I said, "It's okay for you to be upset. It's okay for you to be angry. It's okay for you to get confused. I think the best thing that we can do right now is go to them and talk to them just like you would want someone to go to you and talk to you if you were upset about something." So, we set up these little meetings where the students could come and just sort of talk about how they're feeling, talk about their experiences at Mizzou, and we call them small group sessions. And they were led by a couple of faculty, myself included, and administrators that I sort of picked, just you know, I have a very great rapport with a lot of my colleagues, and I knew that a lot of them were interested in diversity issues. At the time, we didn't have a diversity committee, so I was like, "Okay, well, here we go. We're going to form this little group and we're going to talk to these kids." And from those meetings came some really intense, uplifting and really depressing and disturbing, quite frankly, stories of experiences of past and present students at Mizzou in the School of Music. And, when we got that information, I decided to pitch the idea to our director. I said, "Listen, we need to have a group. We need to have a group that is a place where students can go and express themselves and feel safe. As in people will listen to them and not tell them they're wrong for feeling their feelings. and can help support diversity issues." I sort of started looking at other universities realizing, "Hey, we need a diversity faculty committee, we need to have a student group," and I just decided to put all this stuff together and, you know, when you're a college professor, you have to do service. So, this sort of counted as my service. They were originally gonna have me do entrepreneurship, which I would have been fine with, but this is way more important to me, and my whole career has been built around diversity and acceptance and getting rid of these barriers in our industry. So it seemed like a perfect fit. We started the collective, and our first project is we had some summer readings and some summer video sessions where we would just watch, you know, materials, and then get together and discuss it in these groups. And it was very healing, I think, to a lot of students. There's still a lot of work to be done. The group still meets. Right now we're doing a series of during our convocations - we have weekly complications. So we'll do three a semester where a professor and a student get together and just talk about Spotify playlists that they've made and why the music is significant to them, and then the studio makes a playlist. It's just a way for us to connect on different types of music, and it's relationship building. It's culture, understanding, it's really beautiful. And I'm really proud of the group, especially doing it during a pandemic where most of the meetings are on Zoom, which we all know, kind of awkward. It's hard to feel like and connect with people, but they persevered, and I'm really proud of them. So I don't have as much to do with the group now because I'm on the committee. I started the official committee at the School of Music, and I chaired it last year, but this year, since I'm going on maternity leave, and also just got promoted to a tenure track line, so I have a lot of stuff I have to do for that I decided to just sort of step back a little bit from all that stuff. But it's nice to know that you start something and people take the wheel and run with it. It's really great. I'm really proud of that group, and I encourage anyone who's listening who works at a university or any type of institution, if you don't have something like that, have it. It's easy, even if it's just a book club, or coffee hour or something where you can get together and have a safe space to talk about these issues and how they affect your institution. I think it's invaluable.

Carrie Blosser 22:19

I love that playlist idea. I think that's such a great way because it's so holistic in terms of like, right, School of Music makes sense! But it's also like the all those extra, like the layers of a person coming in. That's awesome. You were talking before about like how you, you know, mentorship between you and your students currently and your mentor, Larry Williams kind of seeing, like, careers and what you can be, and honestly, I would say you were talking about how, like, music isn't just orchestral military band or teaching. I feel like some of the best musicians I know and like the most active professionals I know are not playing in those typical groups and have very successful fulfilling careers. So, you play with a lot of different chamber groups and larger ensembles like tours and shows. We'd love to hear how you built those relationships and networks and kind of maybe what what you're looking for next or not looking for next

Amanda Collins 23:12

Network building is something that takes practice, just like anything else. I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking, "Oh, is this easy, just talk to people. Boom." But, especially for younger generation, some millennial, you know, the tail end of you still have to call people on their house phone, and you can't call after nine and all these rules, and there was no email. And now, you know, we have the ability to contact people in 25,000 ways, none of which are to calling him on the phone. So, I think that for me, it was sort of instinctual. But if you really want to know one of the biggest things that helped me in my networking skills, which I'll explain in a minute, the skill is very important to talk about first, though, working in retail. So, when I took that job at Music and Arts, I worked in a store. Anybody could walk through that door at any time and have one of millions of needs, and your job you had, you got paid, like I think I got paid minimum wage or something or maybe a little bit more than that. But also commissions. And so it was very important for me to be able to identify what - it sounds so predatory, and I don't mean it to be- like, "What could I possibly sell this person to help make my commission that month?" We had goals and things like that, and we'd get bonuses for going over the goal. So I got really good at listening to people and then making these little like mental checklist of the things that they valued and important to them and keeping track of them. I had this little notepad that I always carried around and I'd write down who I talked to and even if I could sniff a slight lead like you know, some so and so's kids taking piano lessons on this crappy little you know, Casio keyboard, but eventually they're going to need the 88 keys and weighted and I know that that's an $1,000 sale. I'll keep track of that and when we have a sale, be like "Okay, do you remember when you came in and little Bobby Joe was taking lessons. How's she doing? Because we have a great sale on pianos!" You know, like I just had a way of like remembering this stuff. And I'm not trying to brag, but it's important to note that these skills are very important because every month that I worked in that store and every month that I was an educational representative, which was a bigger version of retail selling to schools, I always made well over my goal and ranked in the company as one of the top salespeople, and I think it's because I really learned from some of the best salespeople in the store. I watched them, I saw, I found the person who's most successful at the skill, and I copied them, and this is sort of what I've always done in my career. It also helps that I'm pretty good at talking to people. I always thought that I was an extrovert, like, you know, I'm sitting here talking to you right now and I'm not nervous at all. I mean, my first couple of like, TV and radio interviews, I was a little nervous, but now, I'm so used to it. I don't have trouble speaking. I know there's some people that that are introverted, and they get nervous doing this, but I would say the more you practice it, the easier it becomes because I'm also introverted in many ways, too. So again, it's a skill. It's a persona. I almost think of it like pretending to be somebody else. And you're just putting on an act to get what you need, which sounds terrible, I sound like some sort of greasy used car salesman! But you know, it's your professional persona is what I tell my students. It's the person that is going to help you get the things you want in your career, and it comes from an honest place. But if you have to sort of put on a hat to do that, or put on the mask, or however you want to think of it, I think it's okay. So after working in the retail scene, and I tried, you know, that for a while, decided want to get back into music, I realized that it was important for me to network with people that have helped me in the past that, you know, I recalled from either my high school days because I was back in my hometown, or people I met along the way in my career. Before that, when I was playing, I looked up a couple of people that I knew using Facebook, just to see, you know, if they're still in the area around and I asked them to have coffee or ask them if we could have lunch, and Larry was one of those people. And I just pretty much explained to Larry that I decided I wanted to get back into music and I wanted to sort of do a career like what he was doing, and he gave me some advice. He gave me some lists of people to talk to, and then I would say "Hi, my name is Amanda Collins. Larry Williams gave me your contact info. I'm interested in doing XY and Z. I would love to pick your brain, and you know, if I could buy you lunch or something and just ask you a couple of questions to help me." And nine times out of ten you go to these meetings and people are so flattered that you think of them. They'll tell you what you need to know, and they'll give you more leads, and they'll give you more options. And I remember one of those leads ended up being...I played a gospel concert at one of these huge mega Baptist churches down in DC. I can't remember which one it was. But I'd sit in this section playing all this. I love gospel music and having a good time, and I was improvising and just like, you know, laughing and smiling with people. And the trombone player said, "Hey, do you teach?" And I said, "Yeah." And he said, "How'd you like to teach at Duke Ellington School of the Arts?" And then I ended up a few months later getting that job. I think it's all in how you present yourself and keep track of people and you ask for help. And also to know that it's okay if someone doesn't want to help you. That's okay. There'll be somebody else who does. But I try and keep track of people that way. If you can't remember it so well, which I totally understand, you know, I told you, when I worked at the retail store, I had my little notebook that I would keep on me at all times. Have something like that. Or, you know, if you get business cards from people if people still do that, go home and write them and be like, "Hey, it was so nice to meet you." Or if someone gives you their Instagram info, send a message like, "Hey, I really enjoyed meeting you. Hopefully, our paths cross again soon, you know, have a great day." Just something to stay connected to that person, and check in with them periodically. I think that's really important. You have to understand that this is part of the job. It's not something you do just because you have to do it. It's something that you do, because this is part of the requirement for freelancing and for getting those connections. I also can attribute that to this job. For example, being a professor at University of Missouri, I taught at a festival in Memphis called the Prism International Chamber Music Festival, and the flute professor there is the flute professor here. And we really hit it off. We had this really great barbecue in Memphis, and we both like barbecue. So we went out to eat, and next thing you know, we're eating a sandwich together, laughing and having a good time. And we became really good friends. And this job opened up and she called me and told me about it. And I probably wouldn't have applied to it just to be honest, because I was like "Missouri, where the hell's that? I don't know where Missouri is! I'm from Maryland. I don't know the Midwest." And then I probably would have been like, "Oh, I'll never get that job because I don't have a doctorate. Or I never played a full time Symphony Orchestra." But she was like, "No, I think you'd be an being excellent person for it. You teach really well." Because she saw me teach; we played in a chamber music group together. She says "You're a great player. I think you should apply." And I did, and I was the one that's chosen. I think that networking is a skill that you have to practice. Just to sort of sum it up because I know I said a lot of different things. Make sure that if you're the person that forgets a lot, take notes when you get home from something, you know, just write down...maybe you have a journal or something in your phone where you keep track of the people that you meet and follow up with them. I also suggest networking with social media. I have two social media accounts that I'm pretty active on. The one is for my own personal career, which is the @acollinshorn Instagram handle. And then I also have the Mizzou horn crew, which I set up when I got here, which is the horn studio. And that directly helps me recruit because I post even if it's just something silly, you know, on there, it stays in people's minds. These kids follow your account, and they see you and stay relevant. The same thing for if you're a professional musician. You're posting "Oh, I'm super excited to play Nutcracker this week with the Kansas City Symphony!" Which no one ever is excited to play the The Nutcracker! We do it every year! But like, people see that you're playing with the Kansas City Symphony, and they say, "Oh, we she got her to do this. Because that's happened for me a lot. Just always put yourself out there, keep track of people, and even if that's overwhelming, post on your social media what you're doing. You'll stay relevant in people's minds, and they will think of you for things. And then once you do get thought of for things, follow up and say "Thank you so much for thinking of me for this gig. If you ever need me in the future, please let me know." Same thing if you decline a gig. "Thank you so much for thinking of me." I've declined a lot of work lately because I'm in the third trimester. It's just really hard for me to breathe right now, and I can't travel. So like, I got asked to do a recording session in Philly in February, and I told the person I was like, "I would absolutely love to do this. Please count me in normally, but I am about to have my first baby, and I can't travel. But I love what you do. I looked at your website, you know. Here's a person that can sub for now. I'd love the opportunity to work with you in the future." And I will follow up with that person once I come off on my maternity leave, you know. So it's really...just think of it as a little part of the job that will open everything else up for you for like five seconds worth of work. You can post on Instagram. I tell my students "You can post on Instagram sitting on the toilet, okay, just do it. Like post something, not the view on the toilet, obviously." And then they all laugh, but just something french horn related and you'll be fine. And it works. It really does.

Ashley Killam 31:52

Fantastic advice for all musicians of all levels. That's yeah, that's great. And then our final question for you, which we ask everyone, is what's on your music standard this week? And how are you diversifying your stand, whether physical or kind of metaphorical stand?

Amanda Collins 32:10

So this is a fun question because I'm not really playing right now. And that's a really nice luxury to have. I know a lot of people in my position don't have that luxury because if you don't play, you don't make money. And that's the way my life we used to be too. And that's one of the reasons I wanted this job is because I knew if I was going to get pregnant, have a family, it'd be really nice to not have that mandatory I have to play, especially when you know I'm sitting here talking to you and I'm getting out of breath every once in a while. Because you know, baby takes up a lot of space, and your lungs can't fill up the way they used to. So he takes a lot of shallow breaths. But having said that, I am still playing like occasion, and tomorrow...let's see on my standard right now is some brass quintet music for we have auditions for the Faculty Brass Quintet. So we have a trumpet spot to fill. And we'll hear students tomorrow morning, auditioning for that assistantship. And I have a student who is a performance major, and she's getting ready for her first recital, and I decided that, you know, through talking with her, it's important to both of us that we have a pretty representative playlist or recital list for her of things that she's interested in. And she's definitely interested in diversity, equity inclusion, and underserved composers. So we've added two new pieces to her recital in addition to some standards, which are, you know, important for her to know as well. The first one is called "Lesions by Cathy Likhuta. Kathy Likhuta is a Australian-based composer. Wonderful person! Very, very innovative, interesting music. I haven't read the exact synopsis behind "Lesions", but I know that it's a very emotional piece, and my student just instantly...I asked her to listen to a bunch of Kathy's work and I said, "Pick one that really resonates with you, for us to try for your recital." And she picked "Lesions." She said she's really moved by it. So I don't know the piece, but I purchased it. And I plan on, I mean, I need to learn it to be able to teach it to her. So I'll be looking at that one probably this week coming, and then, we also have another piece called "The Heidian Waltzes" by Charles Ingram. Charles is a composer. He's retired. He taught in LA for a long time. But he wrote these waltzes for Professor of Horn at Indiana University of Pennsylvania. I can't remember Heidi's last name...oh! Lucas. Heidi Lucas. She performed it at one of the International Horn Society conferences a few years ago. I wanted to play recital, my first recital, when I became the horn professor here. I wanted it to be based on music, arrangements, all anything that was influenced by composers of African descent. And so the entire recital was called "I too Sing America." It was based on a Langston Hughes poem. I played "The Heidian Waltzes." So this will be the first time I've actually taught it to a student. It's three little movements. Really charming little piece, and she's gonna play that one too. But I figured I need to dust that off too because I haven't played it since 2019. So, I'll be doing those things, but honestly, I knew that you're going to ask me this question, and I wanted to be honest about it as I always am when I talk about these types of things. I think it's important to take time away from the instrument every once in a while. You know, having a baby is a really big, emotional and physical step in your life. Everything changes, and I think it's important to give yourself the space that you need to accommodate those big things. I'm also moving, sitting here looking at a house stacked in boxes, so everything is backed up. So I know that it's important for me for my stress levels to take some time away from the instrument and do the things I need to do because when I come back to it, number one: I'll be hungry again to play my instrument and be really invested in it. Qe all get to the phase where we're kind of burned out every once in a while. We're like, "Man, I don't feel like practicing today," which I think is totally legitimate. And it's okay, that that happens. And I plan on coming back full force in the fall. I don't think I'll have a recital next year, but I'm premiering two new pieces for horn including one as a solo horn and wind ensemble I'll be doing in spring 2023. And I'm looking into starting a horn quartet of female horn players based in the Midwest. And there's one other project I was doing, I can't remember what it was. Pregnancy brain is horrible. It just takes everything, I can't remember anything. But I have a lot of fun projects to look forward to. I'm excited about it, and I think taking the time off allows me to sort of plan them in my head and get myself ready and so when I come back to the horn, I feel ready and excited about it not just "Here we go again." I think it's important to acknowledge that that's an important part of being a musician is taking time away too.

Ashley Killam 36:32

I think all of those projects and having a baby completely counts as a way to diversify your stand. Because that doesn't come around all that often!

Amanda Collins 36:41

No, no. Does not.

Ashley Killam 36:45

Well, awesome. We are so excited to follow you and your studio and continue to watch all of the cool things that you're doing. And hopefully this last trimester is minimal pain. I haven't experienced that!

Amanda Collins 37:00

I can't complain. I'll tell you, it's actually been...I feel really lucky because I had all these expectations and anxiety like, "Oh, I'm heavy, so everything's going to be horrible." But like, I've actually lost a bunch of weight safely. I can wear all my regular clothes atill. I still get around pretty well. I'm tired, but I feel really grateful because I know a lot of women go through hard times of pregnancy. So I feel really grateful that it turned out the way it did. Knock on wood so far!

Ashley Killam 37:25

Well, hopefully it's smooth sailing for the rest.

Amanda Collins 37:28

Thank you.

Ashley Killam 37:29

And thank you so much for taking time out of the packing and pregnancy craziness to chat with us. This is really, really wonderful.

Amanda Collins 37:38

My pleasure. Thank you for asking me.

Carrie Blosser 37:41

Thank you for listening to Diversify the Stand. To support us and our projects. Visit our website at diversifythestand.org.

Ashley Killam 37:48

And a huge shout out to Eric DeJarnett who wrote the intro and outro music. The piece that we've been playing is "Board Games" for two trumpets and fixed media. Links to their website are in the podcast description.

Carrie Blosser 37:58

And as always, we ask our guests, what's on your stand?